So being that I do play poker as a profession, I have decided to start playing more poker (odd, right?). Actually played in a very interesting home game the other day that was shorthanded (by far my weakest style of play being I am a FR player). I played with a HU specialist and an MTT player who has had some solid live results. We played 3 handed and averaged about 600bb deep at all times. I got into so many new spots that I just cannot get into at FR (not that that is a terrible thing, lol) and we played hands face up every hand afterwards. So we played for about 4 hours, but about 2 hours of it was spent talking through strategy and alt lines…very good I will say.
So without going through every hand and how much my poker brain expanded from that game (I learned how to compartmentalize hands shorthanded the same way I already do at FR, which is a ridiculous strength imo)…some very fun pots were had. I called a 500bb over bet into a 350bb pot with 33 on an AcQc6dJdJh, I check-shipped J-hi a few times, and got into some other fun spots. So this got my poker juices flowing again so my friend and I went down to the Venetian today and put in a few hours of live play.
I got onto a pretty decent table and for once stayed at it the whole time. I just played 1/2NL (as my live stake for 2/5NL doesn’t start for a week or so) and got my image wet pretty quickly. I complete/called K7cc from the SB about 130bb deep. I end up stacking AK off on a K74 flop. I ISO a dude, get a few callers with QJdd. Flop QJ5, and I stack down some dudes oddly played AA. Don’t ask me why, but people just assume if you raise a lot or get to SD a few times that you are loose…they just don’t consider the hands you are showing down or the pot sizes you are creating with XX hand. So I get kind of deep with a few guys (who I just so happen to have position on) and some fun hands come up.
I ISO KT, hit AKT in a MW pot and stack down to a 70bb stack. I have AA that i have to fold in an odd spot on a J982 board. Then my favorite hand was I knock 54cc in the BB in a 5 way pot. Flop K59r. I fire $6, UTG raises to $16 (LOL), callstation (guy from the AK/K7 hand) calls, all fold to me and I call. Turn is a 4x, I check (awesome spot imo to check, trap in the callstation money and still stack off UTG’s KQ). UTG bets $25, callstation folds (WTF?), I raise to $69, he jams($180 total), I snap. River J, he shows KJ, I giggle cuz thats how I run.
And here is a fun hand that I am interested to hear what people want me to do. UTG (tight raise range imo) opens to $20, 2 callers to me, I call JJ in the BB. Flop J55. I check, fire $20 by UTG (LOL again, with about $300), 1 fold, an awkwardly tight guy minR’s (leaving himself about $110 back), I call (and cover) and UTG calls. Turn is the 2nd worst card in the deck, the J. I donk out for $39, get 2 callers. River is a lame 9, Hero…?
It really looks like UTG has QQ+, and the other dude has QQ or 5x. So what’s the line? If people respond, I’ll give my thoughts and action.
But nice to get on the bad side of a few spots and still go +2BI. Hope all is well everyone
*SS*
Interesting spot w/ the quads. You dont want to bet too much to run UTG out with QQ+. The tight minraiser guy is pretty much committed to the pot. If the UTG calls a river bet is the tight minraiser paying off a river bet as well with UTG caller? I think you probably bet $110-$130 and hope one of them calls. I dont know how much more action you are going to get.
Remember this is live play…any bet over $100 (which is actually pretty small in comparison to this ~$300 pot)screams super strength. Live players think about things oddly, and thus I think we have to take that into consideration when planning our river line.
Thoughts still?
*SS*
I make it like 70-80 or so.
Live the fish kinda get weird when the bets get big – even if it’s like not even 1/3 pot. And $100 is an especially big psychological barrier to calling, even if they do have zomg Aces.
Shitty turn card but I try to not lose the glue and play it safe on this one.
I def agree with you Sliderrr. I think if I bet smaller here I get a call from UTG which in turns increases the chance that awkward dude will call as well. This makes the bet sticky, doesn’t create hero folds, and increases the profitability of the bet
I bet $69 (which in retrospect probably should have been about $55) and only UTG called (after awkward dude showed AA and folded)
UTG had TT and didn’t understand why I felt the J on the turn might have been a bad card. *sigh*
Hey, congrats on your site SS, it’s very slick-looking (I’d rather comment on the content, but I haven’t yet read, it except for this).
I’ve never played live, but I can def. understand what you mean about people having barriers when it comes down to buck amount. Def. the kind of irrational thinking that goes on in our mind and we hate to admit.
Anyway, if you check here, do you think that none of them would bet AND call a raise ? I’m not saying that’s the best option, I don’t have enough experience to come to a conclusion on this one, but I just wanted to open up the debate to checking, and get your thoughts on it.
Anyway, that sounded like a fun session!
Glad you like the site Louis =)
As for checking, I don’t really think that is an option given my donk on the turn. I also think donking the turn is the best play because the J is terrible and increases the chances they go into passive mode because of it. I also never want to give the awkward guy (who I view as having a 5 quite often) a chance to knock back. Also, if I bet and UTG calls, it increases the chances that awkward guy calls.
I personally think bet>check, and that the CR would only be good if I KNEW UTG wud bet and awkward guy would call. my 2c
*SS*
If I calculated this correctly, the pot is ~$300 on the river, UTG has $200 and awkward guy has $70. I assume you have them covered.
Awkward guy *should* be calling with anything strong enough to raise the turn here although I think a call from UTG will decrease the chances of that since he has to put at least one of you on a Jx or 5x hand.
I would therefore be focussing on maximizing value vs UTG who has a fairly strong range like you said and a bigger stack.
Lets say he calls the $69 bet 80% of the time:
$69 * 0.80 = $55.2
If we put him in for $200:
$200 * x = $55.2
x = 0.28
We have to reduce the amount of the time he calls to less than 28% for $69 to be more profitable.
Even if he calls the $69 bet 100% of the time, I still think the $200 bet is more profitable.
I like the turn donk btw.
JH1:
Are you taking the $100+ mental barrier into the equation here?
Yeah I am. It is just way too profitable the few times you do get called by UTG imo to not shove here.
And I think if he calls $69 100% of the time and shoving has to be called 34% of the time to equal the same EV, that is just too big of a jump in fold equity.
Plus the less and less often he calls the $69 the more and more profitable shoving becomes in comparison.
So if I think that $200(34%+) is better than $69(100%) then it stands to reason that shoving is always better.
If he only calls your $69 bet 50% of the time for EV = $34.50, then shoving is even better since it only has to work 17%+ of the time to be more profitable.
Your shove basically has to reduce his call % to a very miniscule number for shoving to be worse than $69.
What is you estimate on how often he calls $69
90% on $69
5% on $200
$69 * 0.90 = $62.10
$200 * 0.05 = $10.00
With this read then it is obvious that $69 is better. I did not realize FE jumps so much vs shoves live. There is probably some number between $69-$100 then that is optimal if there is that much of a barrier, but $69 is obviously fine while sitting at the table with action on you trying to decide.
live is a silly beast yo
*SS*
Bet $40. That is better than $41-79 because you will most likely get 2 callers (possibly even idiots with ace high).
It also increases the chances one will make a suicide raise.
that was my thought on less than $70, to encourage 2 callers much more often.
I don’t rly think i can ever encourage a suicide raise tho, given the logical ranges of both of them
*SS*
I salute you for making Poker as a profession. Discipline in poker is one of the hardest thing Ive not good at. Managing your money properly and how much one will be able to afford on their online poker games. Knowing how deep one’s pocket is, is very essential before delving hands into this field.A professional poker player needs to strictly abide by some guidelines.